Talking Drupal #561 - The Aaron Winborn Award

[00:00:00] Nic: This is Talking Drupal, a weekly chat about web design and development from a group of people with one thing in common: we love Drupal. This is episode 561, the Aaron Winborn Award. On today's show, we are talking about Aaron Winborn, the award named after him, and what winning is like with our guests, George DeMet and April Sides.

We'll also cover Summit as our module of the week. Welcome to Talking Drupal. Our guests today are George DeMet and April Sides. April is a principal software engineer at Red Hat and treasurer of Midwest Open Source Alliance. She's also heavily involved with Drupal Camp Asheville, A11yTalks Virtual Meetup, and the Drupal Community Working Group Community Health Team.

George is the founder and co-CEO of Palantir.net, a full service digital consultancy that uses open source technologies to help others discover, create, and share knowledge. He has supported the Drupal project and community in numerous volunteer roles, including serving as the co-organizer of DrupalCon Chicago in 2011, and was one of the original members of the Drupal Community Working Group's Conflict Resolution Team from 2013 to 2021.

George and April, thank you for joining us, and welcome to the show.

[00:01:15] George: Thanks. It's great to be here.

[00:01:18] April: Same.

[00:01:19] Nic: I'm Nic Laflin, founder of nLightened Development, and today my co-hosts are Ashraf Abed, tech lead and product owner at Jugito and Debug Academy. Welcome back.

[00:01:29] Ashraf: Thank you. Happy to be here.

[00:01:31] Nic: And John Picozzi, solution architect at EPAM.

[00:01:35] John: Here I am.

[00:01:36] Nic: You've mirrored your camera, so every- all, all the regular listeners-

[00:01:41] John: Wait a second ...

[00:01:42] Nic: may be, and watchers may be a little disoriented.

[00:01:47] John: Wait.

[00:01:47] Nic: Or maybe you've un-mirrored.

[00:01:48] John: Ah, there it is.

[00:01:48] Nic: Oh, thank you.

[00:01:50] John: You're welcome. That... Sorry, it was disorienting to me. I was like, "Wait a second, those aren't there.

Those... They're there. But wait, where are they? Where am I?" Anyway.

[00:02:01] Nic: And now to talk about our module of the week, let's turn it over to Martin Anderson-Clutz, a product marketing manager for Drupal at Acquia and a maintainer of a number of Drupal modules, recipes, and apparently now site templates of his own.

Martin, what do you have for us this week?

[00:02:17] Martin: Thanks, Nic. Have you ever wanted to create a website purpose-built for an event like a Drupal camp that collects, moderates, and schedules user-submitted sessions and do all of that within the Drupal CMS installer? There's a site template for that. It's called the Summit site template, and it was created in June of 2026 by yours truly.

It has a 1.0.0 version that was released yesterday. It is actively maintained, has security and test coverage, and there's some documentation in the roo- uh, repo that we'll talk about in a little bit. Now, it has no open issues, although there are a couple of open issues on the event platform starter from which Summit was created.

We've talked before on this podcast about the event platform that grew out of an initiative from the event organizers' working group. The goal is to remove friction for anyone organizing a Drupal camp or similar event in creating a website that sets them up for success. The event platform was created before recipes were a thing in the Drupal verse, even though it was initially built in ways that were similar to recipes.

A couple of years ago, I started working on the event platform starter recipe to help spin up a fully built event website in a single step. That ran into some technical complexities, so it ended up being a time saver, but still required a number of manual steps. As the newer concept of site templates took shape, I could see that the event platform ecosystem had the necessary elements to become a site template.

In particular, a theme and a battle-tested content architecture. I ended up needing to decouple the configuration and the functional code that had previously been in event platform. The configuration, uh, needed to reside solely in the site template, so the functional code was moved to a new project, Event Platform Helper.

Along the way, there have been a number of significant changes. A Canvas integration for a fully customizable homepage, also a set of Canvas components to allow building new custom layouts, a new custom cache context, improved management of event information, and more. Now you set everything up with a single click in the Drupal CMS installer.

There's an open issue to get it into Drupal CMS installer by default, but today it's just a Composer require away. Now, the repo does also include an agents.md and content structure MD files to help human or AI agents who want, uh, to work on a site built using Summit to understand the initial state of the content architecture it provides, as well as the different logical components and how to troubleshoot them individually or in combination.

But let's talk about Summit.

[00:04:56] Nic: I have so many questions. My- My first question is: what does the development process or, or main-- I know that there's no upgrade process for site templates from one version to the next, but what does the development maintenance process look like for you for site templates? Are, are there any differences between that and kind of recipes?

You're muted

[00:05:21] Martin: I thought I had unmuted myself, but apparently didn't. Um, so the biggest thing that I've seen is that oftentimes when you're working on a site template, you'll get an error, but because of those different sort of components, you don't necessarily know where the fix needs to, to, uh, come from.

And so using AI tools has been actually really, really helpful to be able to say, "Here's the error that I'm getting," and then it can actually diagnose. There were a couple of things that I ran into that actually required fixes both within the, the site template itself, as well as in the theme and the event platform helper that has some of the, um, some of the, the sort of procedural code.

And so, you know, I think in particular there was, there was a piece around being able to, um, to change the way the sponsorship grid is displayed. Uh, somebody had, had pointed out that the, the way that it's been in defau- um, Event Platform really since the, uh, probably the early days of the Event Horizon theme was kind of hard-coded based on the name of the, um, the sponsorship level taxonomy terms.

Mm-hmm. And so ended up figuring out a way to, to get that based on the ordering of the terms within the taxo- or within the vocabulary- Yeah ... uh, which makes it signif-significantly more flexible, but it required like a query alter in PHP as well as, uh, some theming changes and then, you know, also providing the initial configuration that would give you the equivalent starting point, but now you can sort of change it in lots of different ways.

[00:07:02] Nic: That sounds pretty powerful actually. And, and how do you, how do you kinda keep track of all the config? 'Cause that still seems like the biggest difficulty when creating a recipe or a site template. I, I see a bunch of people commenting when they're creating their own like, "Hey, I'm missing some configuration.

How do I find out what it is?" Do any, any tips for that piece?

[00:07:23] Martin: So I will say, excuse me, based on the, um, the interview that I had with, uh, the guys from DripYard, uh, recently in the, the TD Cafe, it sounds like they've actually built out some, some decent tooling for a lot of that. For myself- Okay ... again, I was kind of l- leaning on AI quite a bit to sort of say, "Here's the error that I'm getting."

Um, so I can think in particular, there have been a number of things that are kind of Canvas related because Canvas is kind of a stickler for having some, uh, very granular pieces of the, um, the metadata for different components. So, you know, it expects-- I think there's like an expected active version string that has to match both the layout as well as the component, and if there's a mismatch, then it'll sort of complain about

Was I just muted for a long time?

[00:08:15] Nic: No, no, no. No, just for a second. Half a, half a word.

[00:08:19] Martin: All right. Yeah, there's, there's something weird going on that it's, it's muting itself on me. But, uh, but yeah, so, um, so being able to, to again, just point AI and say, you know, "Here's the, uh, the error that I'm getting," uh, it might come back and say, "It could be, you know, there's a couple of different ways to approach this."

So sort of pointing in, nudging it in the right direction. But it can do things like go into the database and see what the active strings need to be, or in some cases it would actually like, uh, re-export on the fly and then update the config files. So it-- again, there's, there's a lot of, of things that it was able to do that would be extremely tedious to try and do by hand.

Um, and so that definitely made it much more feasible to, to take on, uh, this kind of project, uh, without, you know, a, a team of people.

[00:09:05] Nic: One, one last question. I have a- One last, one last, uh, sausage-making question, and then, and then I'll, I'll, I'll take a step back. I- is your process coming back to it, like if you're a few days away and you wanna work on it some more, do you just like apply it where it stands and then make modifications and re-export it or is there something else?

[00:09:25] Martin: So I, I did a f- a couple of times basically spin up a new site to, to sort of test out the whole installer flow. Um, because what I would do on sort of the main development site every so often was kind of just like, you know, wipe the database, run the installer again, but you never quite know for sure if like, you know, something about the way Composer would run on a fresh site would be exactly the same, those kinds of things.

So a couple of times- Mm ... I did sort of, you know, completely start over. Uh, usually what I would do is kind of, um, do the initial stall, install of the three sort of main components. So, uh, at the time, Event Platform Starter, um, Event Horizon, and then Event Platform Helper. Uh, doing the installer of all of those three with like the preferred source so that if I found out there were like specific things on a code level that needed to change, it was easier to just sort of like, as you say, you know, re-export them or update them and then push those back upstream.

Okay. Um, but otherwise yeah, it was just a, a straight fresh install to, to, as you say, kind of, you know, validate that there weren't gonna be any surprises further down.

[00:10:28] Nic: Awesome. Thanks. Sorry, John.

[00:10:29] Martin: Yeah.

[00:10:29] John: Oh, don't be sorry. Um, so naming things, naming things is hard. Um- Mm-hmm ... uh, does this, I'm assuming this uses like the event- Uh, platform under the hood a little bit?

Is that accurate?

[00:10:45] Martin: So the, the actual answer is no. Um- Oh, okay ... b- because Event Platform was, was really built originally using that mixture of, like, configuration, but also some PHP code.

[00:10:58] John: Hmm.

[00:10:58] Martin: Whereas a site template, like any kind of recipe, can, uh, only include configuration and no code whatsoever. So that's, that was- Got it

why I had to go through that process of creating the Event Platform helper as the place that would, um, would be where the, the, you know, functional code could live, uh, separate from, uh, what... You know, because it was really just a straight port of the, the functional code from Event Platform to Event Platform helper.

But, um- Got it. Okay ... that was kind of the route that we went. Yeah.

[00:11:26] John: Then my naming question is, is, uh, moot point, 'cause- ... I was making assumptions that were incorrect. Thank you.

[00:11:33] Martin: Yeah, no problem.

[00:11:35] Ashraf: So the Event Platform helper, if I understand correctly, is a... Is that a module that is spun out to include that functionality, 'cause the site template can't include it directly?

[00:11:46] Martin: Exactly right. So yeah, the, the initial release of the Event Platform helper was really just all of the functional code that had previously been in Event Platform. You know, since then, there have been some tweaks, uh, particularly going down the road of Canvas, there were some things that needed to be, you know, uh, changed and, and some of those kinds of things.

But, um, but yeah, it was, it was really just, you know, almost like Event Platform without all, any of the configuration, would be another way of putting it.

[00:12:12] John: Cool. So Event Platform, like, moving to deprecation?

Or, or, like- That's what

[00:12:22] April: I was gonna ask. I was gonna say, asking for a friend, if we're using Event Platform modules-

[00:12:28] John: Oh,

[00:12:28] April: crap ... um, do, do we- You just reminded me ... should we look at switching? Yeah. Yeah, that's a

[00:12:30] John: good question. Keep going.

[00:12:32] Martin: Yeah. So, so what I would say is, um, I guess there, there's, there's two ways of answering that.

So number one, um, it should be possible to run an existing Event Platform site using only the Event Platform helper and not the Event Platform. Um, but I haven't actually tried that out myself, so, you know, it could be that there's a little, you know, um, there's some kind of a migration path that needs to happen.

So certainly if anyone is listening and, and starts going down that route, would be happy to kind of help facilitate that process. I'm sure there's, you know, if there's some kind of an installer script or something that needs to happen, we can, we can figure something out. The other thing is, I have also been thinking about, um- Instead of saying, "How do we migrate the same site onto, you know, a newer underlying infrastructure?"

Is it, is it maybe more feasible to th- to think about saying, you know, if three or four years down the line you wanna move onto a newer version of, you know, I guess at that point Summit, is it m- more feasible really to, to do more of, like, almost like an AI-assisted migration from the old site to the new site and just say, you know, there are some differences in the underlying content architecture.

Figure out what those are, and then let's talk about how to normalize those so that everything c- can go seamlessly into the new structure. So to me, that almost feels like it, it would be a better approach, but, you know, um, I feel like, you know, oftentimes those kinds of decisions, it's, it's really sort of like, you know, the, I guess, for lack of a better word, the devil's in the details.

So it would be good to s- start with a real use case and then figure out- Mm ... you know, kind of where the gremlins are from there.

[00:14:17] John: And what I, what I heard there is you're offering that service for free for anybody using- ... Event Template for, for the, for the foreseeable future, so- Yeah, yeah ... great. Thank you. I mean, I'm- Thank you for that contribution

[00:14:28] Martin: I've got nothing to do, so yeah.

[00:14:29] George: Yeah, that was, that was kind of my question is, like, um, you know, do you have... I know this is a very new project, um, but I was curious if there were, um, you know, upcoming events, uh, that might be using the, uh, template or a demo site or anything like that so we can see it in action.

[00:14:48] Martin: Well, I, I'm not gonna lie, part of the reason why I wanted to talk about it on this show is that actually Asheville Drupal camp is probably the most recent site that I'm aware of- Mm-hmm ... to, to launch on the Event Platform. So you can definitely look at that site as an example of kind of, um, you know, maybe not, like, right up to the minute, but, but pretty close I think in terms of what you get out of the box with the Event Platform.

[00:15:11] John: Thanks. I just wanted to scream there, "Already outdated" But.

[00:15:18] Ashraf: Shameless plug here. Hopefully, we should talk about getting this thing on Drupal because, uh, maybe we can do it in another episode. But, um, but yeah, we're working on making, letting people deploy site templates, share the back end across multiple sites, and reduce maintenance overhead that way.

That

[00:15:35] Martin: sounds like a great idea.

[00:15:37] Ashraf: Seeing one.

[00:15:37] John: Hmm. Feels like it could be a, uh, a, uh, a Moosa feature maybe. Like, "Hey, here's your, here's your website platform." Just throwing that out there for any Moosa board members. Might wanna take that idea back and, you know, see if it, see if it holds water.

[00:15:58] Nic: All right. Thank you, Martin.

As always, a, a wonderful module of the week to chat about. If folks wanted to connect, suggest a module of the week or some other project on the internet that might fit into this segment, how can they do that?

[00:16:12] Martin: We're always happy to talk about, uh, current, past, or candidates for module of the week in the talking Drupal channel, Drupal Slack, or folks can reach out to me directly as mandclu on a variety of social and Drupal channels.

[00:16:26] Nic: Awesome. Thank you so much. See you next week.

[00:16:29] Martin: See you then.

[00:16:30] Nic: And Alois is here to talk about New England Drupal Camp.

[00:16:36] Alozie: Have something to share with the Drupal community? We'd love to hear from you. The call for sessions for New England Drupal Camp 2026 is now open. Whether you've built an innovative Drupal solution, solved a challenging problem, discovered a new workflow, or have lessons learned from a recent project, your experience could help others in our community.

We're looking for sessions for all experience levels and interests, from site building and development to design accessibility, content strategy, DevOps, AI, higher education, and everything in between. Whether it's your first presentation or your 50th, we encourage you to submit. Session proposals are due by September 18th, so don't wait.

Join us November 13th and 14th at Rhode Island College as we come together to learn, share ideas, and strengthen the Drupal community throughout New England and beyond. Visit nedcamp.org to submit your session and learn more. That's N-E-D-C-A-M-P dot org. Share your knowledge, inspire the community. Submit your session by September 18th.

We can't wait to see what you have to share at NEDCamp 2026.

[00:17:56] Nic: Awesome. Thank you for that. And if you're planning on coming, please, please submit All right, George. For our listeners, can you, can you give us an introduction of who Aaron Winborn was and why he was, uh, had such an impact on the community?

[00:18:14] George: Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, and I should be really clear. Um, you know, I definitely knew, uh, Aaron when he was working in the community.

I wasn't one of the people who knew him, um, closest, but, uh, you know, um, it's definitely, um, you know, would run into him at Drupal events. We did a, um, a media sprint, uh, at our office, and, uh, he, uh, he came and, and led that. Uh, so, so Aaron Winborn was a Drupal community member. Uh, he's probably best known in the Drupal community for a lot of the foundational work he did around media handling in Drupal.

This would've been kind of in the mid to late 2000s. Uh, this is one of those things that, uh, you know, is largely a, a fairly solved problem today, uh, but was not at the time. And, uh, you know, Aaron was one of the folks who was very deeply involved in helping to solve that problem. Uh, in the Drupal community, he was also one of the organizers of New York City Drupal Camp, uh, and, you know, just in general, very devoted to open source in general.

Uh, you know, he, uh, he worked at, uh, Edvomatic, which was a company that did a lot of really great open source work. Uh, and, uh, he was also even outside of Drupal, uh, just, and outside of the open source movement, involved with a lot of different really cool, um, advocacy and, and charitable causes and things like that.

Uh, you know, personality wise, he was someone who, you know, was one of those folks who's very smart but also very approachable. Uh, so he w- really was a mentor to a lot of other folks who were in the community at the time. Very generous in giving of his time, but also very thoughtful. So, uh, you know, would take a very, not necessarily like, you know, jump in, um, you know, on something, but really take a, a very thoughtful, measured approach, a deliberate approach.

And, uh, so he was, uh, diagnosed with, uh, ALS, which is also known as Lou Gehrig's disease, uh, in 2011. Uh, but he continued to work on Drupal, uh, as long as he was physically able to do so, as well as, you know, doing all kinds of other work, uh, you know, to really, you know, understanding that this was a fatal disease, uh, make sure that, uh, his family, do every, did everything he could to support and take care of his family, um, you know, after he was gone

[00:20:56] John: So George, how did the Aaron Winborn Award come to be, and like what was the community hoping to recognize through it?

[00:21:07] George: Yeah. I mean, and this was a really, uh, kind of interesting progression of events. I was going back in preparation for today, I was going back through some of my emails and everything at the time.

Um, Aaron had been really open about the progression of his disease, and we knew, um, the date that he was scheduled to be taken off light s- life support. This was that late March of 2015. And, uh, so there had already been a lot of talk around the community about how, uh, we were gonna honor his life and memory, just given how much of an impact he had had on the community.

Uh, so Angie Byron, uh, Webchick had reached out to a few folks, including, um, Dries, um, Holly Ross, who was executive director of the Drupal Association at the time, uh, Tiffany Pharris, uh, who was on the Drupal Association board, and myself. Um, and we knew, 'cause this is kind of mid-March, we knew that whatever we were gonna do, we needed to put together pretty quickly so that he would know about it before he passed on.

And, um, so, so right around that same time, um, I, uh, had a conversation with, uh, Hans Reimandschneider, who's a member of the Chicago Drupal community, um, at MidCamp. And, uh, you know, as he proposed this idea of like maybe we should do like a, a community award, uh, in Aaron's honor. Uh, so, so yeah, I have, uh, uh, actually I've, you know...

So we've been kinda going back. So we talked in person, we kinda went back and forth by email. Um, so I, uh, have one of the emails, uh, quote is like, "Aaron is such a neat guy. Um, you know, recognition criteria could take any number of forms. Honoring his commitment to the Drupal community, his personal kindness and integrity, and his candor, uh, regarding his physical activities."

So, um, so basically what happened then over a course of really just a couple days, um, you know, is so I was one of the, um, members of the Drupal Community Working Group at the time. Uh, it wasn't like today where we have a separate community health team and a conflict resolution team. It was just, uh, really the four of us.

So that was Angie, uh, Donna Benjamin, uh, Adam Hill, uh, from the UK, and myself. And, you know, we agreed unanimously that w- we, the Community Working Group, really, um- Wanted to take this on in the interest of promoting community health. And this was, I think, really the first thing we had done as a group that wasn't...

was not centered around, uh, either conflict resolution or the code of conduct. So, uh, so then we, you know, essentially took Hans' idea and, uh, and, you know, the, the s- uh, some of the stuff that Angie had suggested, and, uh, reached out to, to, again, Holly Ross and Dries. Um, they signed off, um, on this idea of the award.

We very quickly drafted a message to Aaron and his family, uh, and then also a public announcement. Uh, the Drupal Association also, uh, made a donation to his family's trust. So the first, uh, Aaron Winborn Award, um, actually, uh, you know, now we do it all, um, the award is given at the North American DrupalCon in the spring.

Um, but just because of the timing and everything, um, the way it worked the first year is that Dries announced the award, uh, during his keynote at DrupalCon LA, which I think was in, uh, May or... I think it was May of, uh, 2015. And so that's when we opened the nominations, and then we gave... The award was presented, uh, at the European DrupalCon, which was in Barcelona, uh, that year, and it, uh, went to Kathy Tees, uh, for the first year.

So that's kind of the, the origin story.

[00:25:11] John: So, uh, just to make sure I understand this correctly. So Aaron was aware of the award before his passing?

[00:25:18] George: Yeah, we messaged him, uh, to let him know that, um, and it was, it was mentioned in his, uh, um, you know, in his obituary and everything. So, um- Mm-hmm ... we are pretty sure that he was aware of it.

[00:25:32] John: Okay. Very interesting.

[00:25:36] Ashraf: Yeah, for sure. Um, so in terms of when they select, um, a winner, and I'm hesitating in my wording because I do wanna give a moment to, you know, um, sit with the message, you know. Um, so hopefully- Yeah ... Aaron's family is doing well. You know, may he rest in peace.

[00:25:59] Alozie: Mm-hmm.

[00:25:59] Ashraf: Um, and I'm, uh, you know, I think there's...

It's, it's really wonderful that the, the award that the community does have, um- is this type of award and it's not like the, the do-gooder award, right? Like Right. I think it says something about how, how much people, uh, value, you know, him and his contributions. Um, so, uh, what I wanted to ask was, um, in terms of selecting the winner for the award, um, how is that done?

What does the selection committee look for? You know, what's the nomination process?

[00:26:38] George: Yeah. So the, um So the, the, one of the really interesting things and kinda unique things about the, uh, Erwin Born Award is that you cannot nominate yourself, right? You have to be nominated by, uh, another member of the community.

And, uh, so that, that whole process is organized by the, um, by the community working group, and, uh, essentially we, you know, have a, a call, uh, for nominations from the community. And, uh, and then once those are in, uh, the, the group of people who makes the decision is, uh, are the members of the, um, the conflict resolution team, and then it is, um, any past award winner, uh, who, uh, you know, who chooses to participate.

Uh, the first year that we did it, um, it was the community working group and, and Hans was, uh, the other, uh, person. But, um, but yeah, so, so now it is, uh, it's, it's, uh, conflict resolution team plus past recipients. And, uh, yeah. So I think one of the things we really kinda look for, right, is... You know, we read, um, all the nominations that come in and, uh, what people say and everything, and again, looking for that kind of personal integrity, that kindness, that, you know, above and beyond commitment to the community that, that goes beyond, um, you know, just what you might do in your ordinary course of contribution or what you might do for your job, right?

This is somebody who, you know, um, on a personal level, uh, you know, is, is, is passionate and cares and is giving back. Um, I think one thing we, that, that at least when I was... I'm not, I'm not part of the judging committee anymore. I haven't been in about five years. But, uh, you know, I know that I looked at is, is particularly if there was somebody who was nominated multiple times, and that's either in the same year or over multiple years, uh, that's also really key.

And I think a lot of the folks who have been recipients, uh, are folks who, who have received nominations, uh, you know, multiple times. And one of the other kinda cool things we do, um, this isn't really something we, we talk about, but if you were nominated but you weren't, um, the recipient of the award, we actually reach out to those folks and we say, "Hey, wanted to let you know, and, and here, here, here are the things that people said," right?

And so, so they, they, those folks know, even if they aren't the person who received the Erwin Born Award that year, they, they do know that other people in the community Apprec- no, see them and appreciate them. Um, so, so those are, I think, really kind of the, the key things, at least from my perspective.

[00:29:50] Ashraf: That makes sense.

[00:29:50] John: Yeah. So just to make sure I understand correctly, it's not about like, it's not like a traditional vote, right? Mm-hmm. Like, it's not a, it's not like, "Hey, you got five votes. Well, this person only got one." It's- ... it's more the quality of the, of the submissions?

[00:30:05] George: In, in terms of the, in terms of the nominations, um, no, we're not, we're not counting the number of nominations.

But the, the committee does vote. Uh, and- Yeah, okay ... uh, so it's, um, I know, and I don't know how they do it, uh, today- Right ... but I remember when, when I was part of it, we, we would have a spreadsheet essentially, and we'd be like, "Hey, here's all the nominations. Here are the things that people said." And then, um, I can't remember if we did ranked voting or just- Sure

straight up, um, this is the person. Um, I think we did ranked voting. But it, it is, so it's, so it's again, those people who are, you know, who have received it in the past get to, get to have- Yeah ... a voice. Yeah.

[00:30:53] John: Hmm. Interesting.

[00:30:57] Nic: So the, the award itself, it, you know, this is one of the things that are, I really love about Drupal.

You know, Drupal, the code is great, right? You know, we have that old saying, "Come for the code, stay for the community," and this award is no different, right? You know, we're not... People that are receiving the award aren't receiving the award necessarily because of the code that they've written. It's something that they've done in the community.

[00:31:20] George: Right.

[00:31:20] Nic: Um, why do you think it was important to kinda make that distinction and, you know, keep the award about the community aspect?

[00:31:30] George: Yeah, that's a really good question. And, um, I think, um, I mean, I think it does go to, you know, a belief that I've always had, right? That, uh, you know, that the community aspect of Drupal, the collaboration, the working together, uh, really is what makes, uh, an open sou- any open source community successful.

And, you know, and I think Drupal is, is certainly the best example of it that I've seen out there. I, I, you know, I'm, I'm familiar with other open source communities. They're wonderful, many of them. But I talk with folks from other open source communities, and they, they, they envy us, uh, here at Drupal for, for the really strong community that we have.

And I think it's a big part of the reason for the longevity of the project. The way we've been able to continue to adapt and grow and innovate, uh, is because we are able to kind of get together and, and move forward as, as a community. It's not just that, you know, one person says, "Oh, we're doing this now," right?

And, you know, even when there is kind of a big thing like, you know, development of Drupal CMS or whatever, that is coming from a lot of the things that a lot of people in the community are, are talking about and looking for. So, so yeah. I think, I think that is, um... So recognizing that and recognizing the people who help strengthen and make that community better is really important.

Um, there are a lot of people who do that. Um, there are a lot of people who write great code. Uh, but, but that alone isn't, um, you know, uh, uh, you know, you could have, you could have the best written project, you know, from a code perspective in the world, but if there was no community behind it, it wouldn't, wouldn't go anywhere.

So we see that a lot of times as well.

[00:33:46] John: Uh, April. So you are the, the current winner. You, you won the Aaron M. Born Award this, this past year. But I'm wondering, yourself, and looking back at past recipients, what do, what do you think you all have in common? E- even though you all have very different backgrounds, contributions, you know, whatnot.

[00:34:12] April: Um, I think just, just, you know, like, a commitment to the community, like, like George was saying. Like, you know, we want Drupal to be successful. We want to, you know, kind of be the culture keepers of, of the Drupal community, and I think that, that all of us have done that. And, and just having, you know, a, a certain level of impact on the community.

Like, we think about, like, uh, Kevin Thull and his Drupal Recording Initiative was able to- Mm ... you know, bring sessions to people who weren't able to attend events and things like that, and continues to do that. Um, I think, you know, we think about the impact on, on being able to bring Drupal to the people, and, uh, and then to keep that culture and that culture of kindness and, and helpfulness that, that makes Drupal Drupal

[00:35:05] John: Yeah, that ma- that definitely makes sense.

And, and you bring up... I- it's funny, as you go down the list, there, there's a list of, of all of the winners, including April, and we'll put it in the show notes. And you kinda look at each person on there, and you can kinda go, "Oh, yeah, they d- they did that thing," and that thing like significantly helped the community do, you know, do other things or bring Drupal to the people or, um, I know Leslie Glenn's on here, and obviously Leslie, Leslie's w- been doing a lot with, with mentoring and training, and I know at New England Drupal camp, for a long time Leslie helped with our training, our training slate of, of, uh, content.

So like, uh, uh, there are just a lot of people on here that you're like, "Hmm, that makes sense." Like, they, they definitely, they definitely put something into the community. They definitely believe in, in the community. Even, um, the, the, uh, winner who shall not be named, uh, Amy June. Even

[00:36:04] George: Amy June. And

[00:36:04] John: Amy, e- even Amy June-

provides great value and love and support to this community, which, um, you know, I, I think, yeah, I think you, you definitely hit on something there. Yeah.

[00:36:18] Ashraf: Um, April, uh, congratulations. You know, belated congratulations if I didn't already say it before. Um, when I saw that you were the winner, uh, you know, I was in the conference hall during the keynote, and, um, I was so happy to hear your name.

I was like, "That's an excellent choice." Um, when did you find out? Did you find out with all the rest of us? When did you find out, and- ... you know, what were you thinking when you find, found out?

[00:36:49] April: Yeah, luckily I found out before, 'cause I kinda had to be there. Yeah. So they kinda had to make sure that, that all that would happen.

But, uh- We,

[00:36:55] George: we always give folks plenty

[00:36:57] April: of advance. Yeah.

[00:36:57] George: Yeah. It's

[00:36:58] John: not one of those things like, "Hey, are you going to DrupalCon? Are you sure- Yeah ... you're going to DrupalCon? You're going to DrupalCon, right?"

[00:37:03] George: We,

[00:37:03] April: we, we,

[00:37:04] George: we have had, we have had cases where it was like, like, "Yeah, we need to make sure this person's gonna be at DrupalCon."

[00:37:12] April: Yeah.

[00:37:12] George: So, yeah.

[00:37:14] April: Yeah. So I, I think it was January when I found out. And, and it was funny enough, I was on an A11yTalks team call, which AmyJune should have been on, but I get a phone call from AmyJune. She's one of my best friends. And so I'm like, "She never calls me, though." So I'm like, "I need to answer this phone call."

And she was just so excited- ... to tell me that I won, that she had to call me, like, immediately. And I had to be like, "Can I call you back in a few minutes like when this call's over?" Um, but yeah. Like I, I, I know

I, I, I knew I had been nominated a few times, and so I was like, you know what? I don't... I, I just started telling myself, "I don't do it for the award." Like, it would be really, really great to win the award. All my friends win the award, and stuff like that. But, like, I do it for the community. Do the things that I do for the community.

And so then when I guess I put myself in that position, I won. So mentally, but yeah. Um, it's, yeah, it's, it's very much an honor because there are so many people doing so many great things that- You know, I know I'm in really good company, and I just feel, you know, just fortunate to, to have been voted this time.

And then now I have to pick someone, and that's gonna maybe be even harder- ... uh, to figure out who gets it next. But, yeah.

[00:38:30] Nic: I, I, I have to say, one of my favorite things about watching the Driesnote every North American camp is the YouTube video comes out, I start watching it, I start fast-forwarding to get to the Driesnote, and then, you know, the second or third click, I end up in the Ar- Aaron Winborn Award and go, "Oh, yeah, I need to see who won."

And then I have to find the beginning of that section and watch it. And then, uh, and then I fast-forward again till I get to the actual Driesnote. Um, but it's always, like, this little... Like, I always forget that they, um, bundle it in with the actual Driesnote, and it's like this little surprise, uh, of joy, um, at the beginning.

Um, before, before I ask my next question, one of my other... One of my favorite things about the Aaron Winborn Award is that each award itself is unique, um, and handcrafted by somebody in the community. Can you, can you talk a little bit about yours, April? Who, um-

[00:39:25] John: Or, or just point to it. Isn't it right there on the shelf behind you?

Mm-hmm. It's right here You don't wear it around your neck like Amy June? Oh,

[00:39:35] Nic: it's a glass cake. Oh,

[00:39:37] John: it looks like it's heavy, so maybe that would not be the best idea.

[00:39:40] April: This... So this one- Is that glass? ... it's glass. Yeah, this one, uh-

[00:39:43] John: That's cool ...

[00:39:45] April: what do they call it? That is s- So a, I think a company, uh, had it made by someone who does this kind of work, and it has this base that lights it up.

[00:39:54] John: Oh my gosh. Can, can you- You just hold it on the base ... can you put it back on the shelf? It's making me nervous. I feel like you're gonna drop it. There was one year that the, uh, the award got damaged in transit. Yes. They had to, they had to remake it, right?

[00:40:07] April: Yeah.

[00:40:09] George: So, so this is another kind of really cool thing that, that has...

wasn't originally part of the idea, but has kind of, uh, grown into it, 'cause the, the first, uh, I think year two, we, um, uh, you know, we, we just kind of bought an a- an award for like, you know, again, like, just some, you know, company makes like a little... It's like, is it blue? Does it kinda look like a drop? And then, um- And then, yeah, and then, uh, it was, um, I think, so I, I know, um, I know the first one, uh, one, uh, I think Rachel Lawson, uh, made that one.

And, uh, and it was like, yeah, this is like really cool. And then it, it just kind of, we kept going from there. And so this just becomes another way that the community gets involved in this. And it's so cool, like, just all the different iterations of the award and the- Mm-hmm ... the creativity, uh, every year. And, um, it's always like a, another, like cool surprise.

It's like, hey, what, what is the award gonna look like this year? So yeah, and there's, there's some community members who've like, I mean, have put a lot of time and a lot of effort into it. And so, um, that's another cool way to contribute

[00:41:31] Nic: Very cool. So April, can you talk a little bit about, um, you, you mentioned AmyJune calling you, but what was it like to, on the actual award day when you were on, on stage receiving it?

What, how did that feel? What was that like?

[00:41:47] April: That, that was an experience. Um, it's- ... my, I, you know, like I had a prepared speech or whatever and, you know, I've talked to groups of people, but you stand up on that stage and there are a lot of people on, in that room. And, uh, and my body could not stop shaking, so I had to set my s- my f- my things down and like hold my mic tight and like do the speech that way, 'cause I just felt like I was just shaking and like, yeah.

Yeah. So yeah, that was a little bit nerve-wracking, but hopefully, uh, I was able to convey the thank yous and the, the, the message that I did wanna, to say up there.

[00:42:25] John: I, I think, I think you did a great job. I actually recommend folks go and listen to it, 'cause it was such a, um, it was such a, uh, genuine, uh, thank you, not only for the award, but for all the people that helped you get there, all the, all the friends and family that, that kind of supported your- Mm-hmm

your open source journey. And like, I was like, I, I definitely felt the same way, um, Ashraf did, uh, when they announced it was you. I was like, "Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense." Yeah. "That makes sense." And then you, you kinda, you, you, you know, thanked everybody and I was like, "Aw, that was, that was so nice." Like- I'm like, "Mm, all right."

I'm like, "Yeah, who cares what Dries has to say? We'll catch it on video." Just kidding. I'm kidding. Kidding. Um- So April, you've had, uh, a little bit of time now since winning. I'm wondering if winning has kind of changed how you think about your role in the Drupal community or the way you think about contributing.

Um, or maybe it's kind of like made it a double down event where you're like, "I gotta go harder." Um-

[00:43:44] April: You're like, "Oh, I'm done now." Yeah. Can step back. I've won.

[00:43:48] John: You put your feet up on the desk and

[00:43:49] April: you're like- No. ... "

[00:43:50] John: Eh, contributing, of course. I'm all set."

[00:43:53] April: No, I mean, I think that I'm still gonna do what I do 'cause I want Drupal to be successful and I want to provide, you know, as far as like camp and things like that, I wanna still make sure that people have this opportunity to discover Drupal and the community and to have, not necessarily the same experience, but a- an impactful experience that makes them join the community.

And, and, uh, you know, kind of like we're, we're paying it forward to the next generation. And I think, you know, maybe something I maybe think a little bit more about is like how can we get more people involved in the, the contributing and the, the organizing of events and things like that so that we can, so we can step back and give those folks an opportunity to contribute and, and make the c- you know, continue the legacy of the community and keep that culture, uh, going when we're gone and, you know, that sort of thing.

So when we win the lottery, right?

[00:44:51] John: Yeah. Not get hit by a bus.

[00:44:53] April: Exactly. But win the lottery.

[00:44:55] George: When you win the lottery. Well, and I, I think, too, that's another, you know, um- Another key thing, right, is, and, you know, we- that's important as to be a community is to kind of know when to delegate, when to do that sort of bringing in n- in recruiting new leadership and get, having your successor there, right?

Uh, and not, you know, hanging on too long and getting burned out, right? Uh, and, you know, I, when I look at, at the list of past winners and everything, you know, I, I see some people who, who aren't as involved with the community anymore. But what I know is true about those people, uh, is that, you know, they did a lot of work to have, you know, other people who were able to come in and carry forward the work they had done.

Um, you know, and then you have people, you know, I think Angie's a really great example, uh, you know, who, of somebody who was very involved with the community, stepped away for a while, and then just in the last few months has kind of come back in, uh, to kind of help, uh, the community with the, I think it's the AI Learners Club that meets and everything.

Um, you know, because she was at DrupalCon and, and, and saw that need. And so it's, um, it's just really cool. Yeah.

[00:46:25] Nic: Yeah.

[00:46:25] John: Yeah, I was gonna, I was gonna bring up that, that point, George, 'cause I think it's a, it's super, uh, super salient that, like, you know, just 'cause, just 'cause folks were in the community and they've kind of gone to other, other places or started to do other things, doesn't, doesn't mean they can't come back, doesn't mean that, you know, we don't get off the island to them at some point.

And, um, you know, I, I think that's, that's also important for sure.

[00:46:50] April: Mm-hmm.

[00:46:52] Ashraf: Absolutely. Um, so I think a lot of people, uh, look up to you and the other winners, and also, um, seeing the fact that Aaron Winborn's, uh, name will carry forward for, you know, there's a clear legacy there. Um, and um, so for other people who are looking to, um, also make a long-lasting impact in the community, um, the Drupal community specifically, what advice would you give to them?

[00:47:26] April: Yeah, I think just there's, there's lots of different ways to contribute, and so finding, you know, a thing to kind of get yourself started, whether, I mean, you, you can contribute code, but also, like, helping with events.

[00:47:38] George: Mm-hmm.

[00:47:39] April: Um, you know, there's, there's lots of different things. Helping with DrupalCon as a volunteer or just sort of getting your foot in the door, um, to things.

I mean, like, you know, camps have things like marketing, like things that are not even code-based. Uh, marketing, um, volunteering, you know, helping with registration to help people check in at a camp and things like that. Um, there's lots of different things. Even, even being the party planner, even being the social event planner, um, is part of it.

So just, uh, you know, finding your local camp and, and then, I mean, with Asheville, we remotely organize. So I mean, you nece- Mm ... you don't necessarily have to attend. It would be fun to attend and see the product of your, of your work. Um, but you can still be involved in that organizing from, from afar. Um, so yeah, and I think a lo- I'm assuming a lot of other camps do that too.

I think Florida also, you know, like, has people who aren't necess- there's only maybe two people in Orlando, so everybody's kind of organizing, uh, remotely in that way.

[00:48:42] George: Yeah. Yeah, and I think even beyond events, right, um, it really is just about seeing, um, where there are opportunities, right? So whether, you know, it's if you're part of Drupal Slack or you're even just, you know, in the issue queues, um, if you see a place where it's like there's a need and you can help out, um, chances are someone's gonna take that help because, you know, they're, um, we all need it.

And, uh, and, and even if it's not, you know, the right time or the right place or the right person, there's always, always opportunities, uh, to step in. And, uh, you know, I remember, I think one of the first things I did for Drupal contribution was, um, I, I, uh, helped, uh, copyedit case studies f- in the webmaster queue, right?

Because, um, I was like, "These are some really cool stories, but, you know, this person just needs a little help with, you know, uh, y- you know, the copyediting and, and, you know, making it, uh, making it, making the story sound as compelling as it, as it actually is." So there are, there are opportunities all over the place, even, even if events aren't your thing or even if code isn't your thing.

And if code is your thing, then yeah, there's definitely opportunities for that as well. So

[00:50:14] April: And just the initiatives too, right? Oh, for sure.

[00:50:17] George: Yeah

[00:50:17] April: The initiatives, like, highlight areas of high need as far as, like, contribution and things like that.

[00:50:23] Nic: So I, I, I, I think too, i- if you're looking to, you know, contribute, even just...

I think one thing that I've been hearing a lot lately on the show from various different people is just promoting what Drupal is rather than what Drupal isn't, is something that's helpful. And, and giving people pointers on, like, "Hey, we're, you know, we are a community. We work together. We... Here are our strengths on the code side, but, you know, the biggest strength is the community."

And just letting people know that that's where we live. I mean, and, and it's, it's part of the fabric, right? The contribution credit system grew out of that. And yes, contribution credit does very often come from a place of code, but it was explicitly given to give recognition for people contributing to the project, and was explicitly made for things outside of, outside of code.

And so there's a place, you know, the fact that there's a place for you here if you're not a coder, if you're a product manager or a designer or a, um, project manager or something, you know, w- you'll get, um... there's a place for you, and you'll, you'll get contribution credit for that Um, so I think for 2027, the nominations are already closed.

[00:51:43] George: Uh,

[00:51:43] Nic: well,

[00:51:43] George: for '20- Right ... for next year, they're not

[00:51:45] Nic: Next year ... they wouldn't

[00:51:46] George: be open yet. Um

[00:51:47] Nic: Oh, they ha- they haven't been open. Yeah, so- W- w- when, when do the nominations open and for how long?

[00:51:51] George: Uh, the call for nominations usually happens in the fall. So I would expect for, uh, for next year's, um, that those nominations would probably open up, um, probably in October or November.

[00:52:07] John: So wait a second.

[00:52:09] George: Or, or unless I'm wrong about that. I could be wrong about that. My understanding is, I mean, at least that's the way we've done it in the past.

[00:52:16] John: Sorry. Yep, you're right.

[00:52:19] George: Okay.

[00:52:19] John: Yeah, that que- I- That question was completely- I thought so too, but it- That question was completely wrong, Nic. I got, I got...

Never mind. I got my- No worries ... I got, I got my wires mixed up.

[00:52:30] Nic: Did, did, did you confuse the, uh, board nomination with the- I

[00:52:33] John: did, absolutely.

[00:52:33] Nic: Oh, yeah. Okay.

[00:52:35] John: That's, that's the- 100, 100- I was like, I- ...

[00:52:39] Nic: 100%

[00:52:39] John: I

[00:52:39] Nic: did do that, yeah ... I, I decided to trust your, the, the question

[00:52:41] John: you wrote and- No, you should, you should have definitely- Okay

trusted but verified that on your, your end.

[00:52:46] Nic: Okay, fair, fair enough. That's all good. So, so if somebody's look, has somebody in mind in the community that they think has made an impact and, and would be a good, uh, a good candidate, they should look for nominations to open up in the fall.

[00:52:58] George: Yeah, and so that'll, um, I know, get announced, um, on the, uh, uh, the Drupal community working group's blog, which is aggregated on, uh, Planet Drupal, uh, you know, um, social media.

I mean, it's, whenever I'm aware of it, I, I, you know, I share it on my LinkedIn and everything. So, um, you know, the folks who are involved in the community health team or the conflict resolution team, um, you know, we, we, we do our best to make sure as many people in the community know as possible. Because again, you know, and we're always looking for- I think not just the people who you look at and you're like, "Oh, yes, obviously."

Um, but also maybe the people who are making an impact that is really significant that you might not have heard of, right? Yeah. Uh, and, and so we wanna make sure that those folks, um, you know, wherever they are in the world, um, have an opportunity to get nominated.

[00:54:04] April: They don't, they don't have to be doing burnout level contribution.

[00:54:08] George: In fact, they should

[00:54:09] April: not be. Like, they should

[00:54:10] George: not be. They should not be.

[00:54:11] April: Yeah. And, and the fact that we do share, uh, 'cause I am on the community health team, uh, we do share the, the nominations. And so even if the person that you nominate, and you can nominate multiple people. Mm-hmm. Even if they don't win, they still get to hear that people care about what they're doing, and so they, you know, re-energize from that.

But we also call for, uh, award makers- Yes ... at, around the same time. So if you're a maker, you like to do different craft things, uh, you know, look for those announcements, too. Uh, we are, there is a Drupal community working group, uh, LinkedIn company that you can follow. I think we're on Mastodon and Blue Sky other than that.

Yeah. So we'll put out a bunch of different, uh, announcements and reminders to, uh, to submit the nominations and to, uh, to try and find people who will make the award.

[00:55:04] Nic: Very cool. I'll keep an eye out for that, too.

[00:55:07] John: Any, uh, any, any, like, predictions or things you'd like to see in the next award? Like-

[00:55:14] Nic: You mean for the f- the actual award?

I- Yeah, yeah ...

[00:55:16] George: I, I like, I like being surprised.

[00:55:20] John: I was actually thinking, like, a painting would be cool.

[00:55:22] George: Yeah.

[00:55:23] Nic: Yeah, that would be.

[00:55:24] John: Or, or, like, maybe, like, some sort of, like, fire art where it's, like, made at the time of winning.

[00:55:32] Nic: Okay.

[00:55:34] George: I mean-

[00:55:35] Nic: Sounds dangerous ...

[00:55:37] George: uh, yeah, the venue might have rules about open flame on stage.

Ah, we'll deal with those later. Generally frowned upon. We'll deal with those later.

[00:55:45] April: Everybody meet us in the parking lot.

[00:55:48] John: I mean, right after the picture. We could be, like, in the- Uh-huh ... middle of the picture and somebody ... Where's your award?

[00:55:56] Nic: All right. Well, George and April, it's been a pleasure chatting with you guys about the Erin Manborn Award.

Uh, it's always, it's always nice to see who's being recognized at the, uh, at DrupalCon. Like I said, it's always a pleasure to see, see that announcement. And, uh, thank you for joining us.

[00:56:14] George: Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having us,

[00:56:15] April: yeah.

[00:56:16] George: Yeah.

[00:56:17] John: Do you have questions or feedback? Reach out to Talking Drupal on the socials with the handle TalkingDrupal, or by email with [email protected].

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[00:57:08] Nic: And George, if our listeners wanted to get in touch with you, what's the best way for them to do that?

[00:57:12] George: Oh, um, probably find me on LinkedIn. Uh, and I think I'm just G DeMette. Uh, I also am on Mastodon, uh, so that's [email protected].

And, uh, you know, and then you can also find, uh, my company palantir.net, uh, there. And, um, I think I have a Blue Sky, but I don't think I've ever posted to it, so. I mean, I, I think I might have posted a couple of random observations about TV shows I'm watching, but that's... Yeah.

[00:57:49] Nic: Awesome. And April, how about you?

[00:57:52] April: Uh, probably LinkedIn. On LinkedIn, um, I think I'm just aprilsides altogether. I don't think that there's a hyphen, but on everything else I'm weekbeforenext.

[00:58:02] Nic: Awesome. And Ashraf, how about you?

[00:58:06] Ashraf: Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn or [email protected]. And John?

[00:58:13] Nic: And in the Drupal space, of course.

[00:58:16] John: And I'm John Picozzi.

You can find me, uh, at picozzi.com personally, on all the social networks and drupal.org@johnpicozzi, and you can find out about EPAM at epam.com.

[00:58:29] Nic: And you can find me pretty much everywhere @nicxvan, N-I-C-X-V-A-N.

[00:58:34] John: I was gonna try to do the tagline as Chewbacca, but I think I'll just read it. If you've enjoyed listening, we've enjoyed talking.

Have a good one, everyone.

[00:58:44] Nic: That would've been- ... out of left field for our listeners. Yeah. It, it's about

[00:58:50] John: it. This week on the

[00:58:50] Nic: Acquia Show.

[00:58:51] John: It's all I got.

[00:58:53] Nic: See you next week