Talking Drupal #517 - The Event Platform Levels Up

Nic: this is talking Drupal, a weekly chat about web design and development from a group of people with one thing in common. We love Drupal. This is episode of 517, the event platform levels. Up on today's show, we're talking about Drupal's event platform. What's new and what's to come with our guest, Martin Andershon-Clutz.

We'll also cover ECA Tamper as our Module of the Week Welcome to Talking Drupal. Our guest today is the one and only Martin. As a principal solutions engineer, Acquia Martin aspires to be a Drupal evangelist demonstrating the power and flexibility of open source. Martin was the world's first triple, triple certified expert and lives in London, Ontario, Canada.

Though we can usually be found at a variety of Dr Camps and conferences as well. I don't know why it is, but every time I read Triple, triple, it makes me think of like a triple bypass or something. I think it's, well that's because I, for that, well I live in Canada where everybody drinks Tim Horton's coffee and like the famous Canadian coffee order at Tim Horton's is a double double, so it always kind of reminds me of that.

Martin: So yeah, triple, triple could also be a coffee that it has way too much milk and sugar in it.

Nic: Yeah, it's be, sounds great. Alright. I'm Nic Laflin, founder at nLightened Development and today my hosts are joining us for. I was gonna say the next four weeks, but I know there's a gap in there. So for the next group of guest hosts is going to be James Sandsbury, CEO at Tugboat.

James is a musician turned web architect. With nearly two decades of experience building large scale digital platforms, he has led projects for major brands including Intel, Cisco, the recording Academy, Martha Stewart, Sci-Fi, Bravo, and M-S-N-B-C. Now as CEO at Tugboat, he helps teams ship high quality code quickly and confidently.

Welcome to show, and thank you for joining us.

James: Yeah, excited to be here. Thanks everybody.

Nic: So I know you're, you're, you're at Tugboat formerly. Lullaby. How many, yeah. How many musicians turned Web architects are there.

John: It's a prerequisite when you get hired.

James: Yeah. For folks that don't know, the original founder, one of the founders of Lullaby was Jeff Robbins, who had a rock band in the nineties called Orbit.

And yeah. So I think that may have contributed to why I got hired actually, when he found out I was, I had some music background, so.

Nic: All right, and chiming me in is also John Picozzi, our usual host solution architect at EPAM.

John: Hey everybody. I wanted to take a second and I know Martin, James and I are all, are all fresh back from Drupal GovCon.

Mm-hmm. And it was just a wonderful wonderful conference down in college Park, Maryland, and some, some great sessions. A lot of ai, a lot of ai, but I, there were some great stuff and like you really great explainers on ai, great use cases for ai. I saw this great I'm, I'm gonna use great a lot, which is unfortunate, but.

Where I'm at right now. John is AI

James: generated content. Yeah, I know. Put some m dashes in there.

John: It was, it was, it was this demo of a chat bot using AWS bedrock, which I was not overly familiar with, and I was like, this is very cool. And the, the person giving the demo even put in like some of the client files into a knowledge base and then used that to inform the chat bot and have the chat bot work off of, off of those files to provide responses.

It was very cool. Too cool to talk about in in its entirety in this segment. So I wrote a blog post, recapped it. Martin and I also co-presented there's some great Easter eggs in our presentation. Feel free to check those out. I'm not gonna go into detail. Yeah, read the blog post, you'll find out more.

But I'm wondering James or Martin, if you had any, any additional insight into GovCon or things you'd like to share?

Martin: Well, one thing I'll mention quickly is that I'm pretty sure all the sessions are actually already up on Drupal tv. So if folks wanna catch any of those sessions, including ours, that's a good place to go and check 'em out.

That, that

John: is, and, and way to stay in brand Martin. 'cause I would've just said YouTube, but yeah, triple tv. Go there first. You had something to add.

James: Yeah, that was pretty incredible how quickly they got the recordings up. I, I was expecting, like, most, most conferences I go to, it's like a couple months later and you're still waiting for your recording to go up.

So, yeah,

John: Bob McDonald was like on it. Nice. He was in every room checking to make sure you hit the big red button. He was like, and then I, I asked him like at the the day two the day two after party before I like left to get on my flight. I was like hey Bob, when are the videos gonna be available?

Yeah, I don't wanna put 'em in my blog post. He goes, oh, day one's already up and day two up. Like, it's incredible tonight. I'm like, oh, okay. Cool. Thank you.

James: Yeah. Yeah. I've been to some larger conferences, places that, you know, bigger than any of the camps and Drupal cons and stuff like that. Many of them just don't even have any recording at all.

And so it's always incredible going to a Drupal event and seeing how nicely the setup is for recording. You just get, you know, a big red button to push and you're off to the races. And Kevin th did a lot of that work, and Yeah. Bernardo, as long as you can remember to do

John: it. That's, that's the big, yeah.

Yeah. But still, there were a couple, couple people, like two minutes in, they're like, oh, right. There we go.

James: Yeah. Yeah.

John: One, one bummer though is I don't know that they recorded the keynotes, which I was looking for. Oh. And I was kind of like, oh, come on. Those were two really great keynotes. Mm-hmm. I wish they were recorded, but Yeah.

Hey, you know what? It just it's a little glass in the chimney for people to, to go and go start going to these events as opposed to trying to catch all the videos. Wait glass in the chimney. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, yeah. Okay. So, this is, this is something I heard that like people that work chimney sweeps and, and, and people that repair chimneys, right?

Would you know, maybe back in the day taught, put a piece of glass in the chimney until they got payment for, for the work that had been done. Oh. And then they'd drop a rock down and break the glass and like the people could use their chimney, but like, it was like a I don't know, like an insurance policy for for those workers to make sure that they were getting paid for their work.

James: All right. You can, that's how that applies here, but you can

John: Okay. You can peruse the internet to see if that's actually factual or if I maybe just made that up or, or got misinformed, but mm-hmm. It applies here because you know, a lot of people don't go to conferences 'cause they're like, oh, I can just go to, you know, I can just watch it on YouTube.

Right. So like, the lack of keynote recording means that you should go to the

James: conference. Yeah.

Nic: Before we talk about event platform, let's turn it over to Martin, who maintains a number of Drupal modules and recipes of his own to talk about our module of the week. Where do you have first this week, Martin?

Martin: Thanks Nick. Have you ever wanted a flexible way to manipulate the data being used in your ECA models? There's a module for that. It's called ECA Tamper, and it was created in April of 2022 by Jurgen Haas of Lake Drops, and it has 1.0 0.6 and 2.0 0.4 versions available. The latter of which supports Drupal 10.4 and 11.

It is actively maintained and has security coverage and has six open issues, none of which are bugs, which is quite good considering it's officially in use by 1,087 sites according to drupal org. Now for anyone who hasn't used it before, tamper is a generic plugin system for transforming data. It's often used with migrations and feeds where you need to make sure incoming data matches the data type of the field where it will be stored.

We actually covered feeds tamper as module week all the way back in episode 56 of this podcast. Now for ECA you can use tamper plugins with conditions. So a model can compare against a modified result, or you can use the tamper plugins with actions storing the result as a token that can be used for subsequent actions.

I ended up using ECA tamper in the event platform for a model that sends out emails if an accepted session hasn't yet been confirmed by the author. And a session confirmation is a specific number of days out, for example, three days away or one day away. So let's talk about ECA tamper. It's funny you, you mentioned it, but I went right back to feeds tamper when when you started talking.

John: I was like, ah, yeah, that's cool. I didn't realize two, two things here. One, I didn't realize that like tamper was kind of a, like a, like an API or a, a standard way of, of building these sorts of, these sorts of things, which is cool. Not to get all meta here, but can you, could you build an ECA flow that then tampered your content?

Martin: I don't see why you couldn't. Particularly because you can use ECA to, you know, for example, alter a node as you save it. And I think there are actually examples of that in the event platform as well. So yeah, you could definitely build those kinds of manipulations into that, that kind of a ECA workflow.

Nic: There is also a sandbox, content tamper module too, so that probably would work with with ECAI would imagine at some point.

So one question I have is actually, 'cause I'm, I'm thinking back to feed stamp as well, which, I mean, it's kind of an obvious analog, but I remember that interface being extraordinarily complex. I mean, it was solving a complex problem. It, it wasn't a necessarily complex, but it was complex. And ECA is already a complex interface.

How, how, what's the what's the UX like when you're adding tampers? Is it pretty straightforward? Are you kind of diving through tons of fields and configuration to try to get what you want done? Done.

Martin: If I recall correctly, the way that I implemented was actually by adding an action that would sort of, in this case, I look at the current date and, or sorry, look at the offset that I had set.

So, you know, it was like plus three days as an example, and then basically put that into a token, use that for the comparison. So it wasn't especially complex, it was just sort of your standard ECA interface. And yeah, it was made it fairly easy to use that way.

Awesome. All right. So thank you Martin. As always, you're finding ways to get more on topic modules of the week even if it's some, just something you used in a particular project. So if folks wanted to suggest a module leak, what's the best way for them to do that?

We're always happy to have conversations about interesting modules or candidates for module of the week and the Talking Drupal channel of Drupal Slack.

Or folks can reach out to me directly as man clue on all of the Drupal and social platforms.

Nic: All right, let's start with it. It's been a little while since we had you on to talk about event platform. In fact, I don't, we have a, when, when were you on to talk about it?

Martin: Oh. I think, well, it's funny because this came up when Kaleem was on recently because he was on the show oh

Nic: 365 with me. That's right.

It was 365. That's right. Okay, so it's been, it's been, it's been a little while since you've been on to talk about this specifically. Can you remind our listeners what event platform is before we dive in?

Martin: Absolutely. So the event platform grew out of an initiative by Drupal's event organizers working group to provide a modern platform to accelerate the creation of websites for Drupal camps.

It started as a fork of the Florida Drupal Camp website and provides a system to manage user submitted sessions, including an ability to automatically email session proposal authors as their sessions are accepted, declined, or waitlisted. Now, in addition to a robust content architecture event platform also includes some bespoke tooling, for example, to bulk generate time slots, which is which are managed as taxonomy terms and event platform, and a drag and drop interface to schedule accepted sessions.

John: Okay, interesting. So. I mean, I, I'm gonna give you a kind of a, a general question here, Martin. 'cause I know probably in the last, like what a hundred and seventy five, two hundred episodes a lot has, has been updated or has changed with the event platform. But kind of what are, what are the newest, I guess, or, or the, the, the biggest latest features of the event platform?

Martin: Yeah, I guess I'll focus really on some of the things that have been in development this year. So one of the things that's new is a system that's built directly into your Drupal site to score sessions. So I had worked with some different camps and I could see somewhere using like, you know, Google sheets or different kinds of tools and then having to sort of like, from there, take the scores, go back into Drupal, and then accept our decline sessions and those kinds of things.

So I thought having a way to score those directly within Drupal would, would sort of save some time. It, even now by default, will hide the, the author of the session in sort of, you know, a lot of the listing interfaces for camps that prefer to sort of, not keep the session author as part of the consideration on which sessions they wanna accept.

Hmm. And then once the sessions are all scored, it has an interface where you can sort and. Sort the, the sessions based on the average score and then use that to sort of bulk you know, accept wait list or decline your sessions. So, you know, sort of tying that all together.

John: Now, can you set your kind of like evaluation criteria?

Martin: Yes. So it's actually implemented using Webform as sort of a single Likert element, which means that to go in and update the criteria, it's super quick and easy. You don't even have to sort of add multiple questions. You can just sort of add or remove or change the listings that are provided as part of that Likert scale.

Nic: So, so I know this is an upcoming question, so I'm not, I I don't wanna talk about recipes directly at the moment, but event platform came out before recipes really were a huge thing. But I think it, if I understand correctly, was it, it's not truly like a. It's not a distribution or something like that.

Right. So what, what is the upgraded path for event platform? Because for example, Ned Camp is using event platform, at least partially now, if we want to use some of these new features, is it as easy as updating and the way you normally would for a module? Or are there other things that are in my future to take advantage of those features?

Martin: That's a great question. So I would say that the event platform was built following the model of, as you say, something that was kind of more of a precursor to recipes. Something that I used to call configuration kits, which were similar in the sense that they were really sort of modules that were more or less a set of configuration that would help you to build out your, your content architecture over the course of working on it for whatever it's been now three and a half years, I wanna say.

There have been some functional components. And so that's a bit of a complicating factor in terms of what we're gonna talk about later in terms of the, the potential move to a set of recipes. But it does also have the consequence that the event platform, at least in terms of how you would use it with your site, is intended to be more of a starting point.

And, and in that sense, you know, in terms of having an upgrade path today, that that doesn't really exist so much. There, there has been an issue raised about potentially providing some kind of an upgrade path. I could see there being a way to add hooks that would sort of, you know, add some of the fields and relationships that, that are the differentiators between the major versions.

So the possibility is there, but I at this point couldn't commit to, you know, when or if that that would be available.

John: So, I, I see in the list here, multi-event architecture is one of the new newer features. What does, what does that look like mean?

Martin: Right. So the, the original version of event platform really assumed that you are creating a site that would be for a single event.

So, as an example, mid Camp 2025, the, if you actually look at the Florida Drupal camp repo today, they actually have in their instructions to say when you wanna use it for the next year, here's how to reset the site so that you can sort of, you know, more or less start over. And, and I think what they do is they will use something like tome or a similar solution to basically render out a static version so that you can still have the previous year's content, but not in the database or, or any of those kinds of things.

So the, the principle of a multi-event architecture is really to sort of add. A way of having different events. So, you know, in the case of something like Ned Camp, you know, each each year's event as an entity in the database, and then using entity relationships to sort of say, you know, I'm gonna submit a session, but under the hood or sort of behind the scenes that's actually specifically for a particular event.

And so it adds a lot of complexity under the hood, but it also means from an ongoing management standpoint, really lowers the level of, of technical know-how that, that some of these camps need in terms of the organizers and being able to manage their website on an ongoing basis. Yeah,

John: I think as early adopters we, we actually added our own taxonomy for, for camp year and kind of plugged it in where we needed, needed to.

But I think, I think

Martin: Drupal Camp New Jersey did the same thing as well. So if you guys are in good company,

John: yes. Perfect. Wondering on the multi-event architecture it. Does it prove, does it allow itself, if you didn't wanna do by year, but you wanted to do literally different events, could you, could you use it in the same sort of way?

Martin: Yeah, absolutely. So one of the, the models that I looked at in terms of, of how that whole architecture should look is actually events.drupal.org, because they do exactly what you're talking about. So, you know, the last couple of years we've had three different DrupalCon every year. And so, you know, this year we've had DrupalCon Atlanta, DrupalCon Vienna, and DrupalCon Narrows coming up as well.

And so trying to sort of look at the patterns in terms of how does that kind of an architecture impact things like, you know, navigation and, you know, what's the homepage, the role of the homepage in that kind of an architecturally trying to sort of be informed by best practices, by sites that have been doing this for a while.

John: And, and there are plenty of other features that have been added to the event platform. I mean, you're doing a great job maintaining it and, and improving it you know, month over month it seems. But I understand it now. Ships with its own theme. Is that, is that

Martin: right? That is correct. So that is something that, that people had been asking about for a while.

It had really been sort of, i, I would say deliberately outside the scope of what I originally built into the event platform. But eventually it became clear and, and you know, shout out to Bernardo Martinez as somebody who has been involved with supporting a variety of different camps in particular the Florida Drupal camp, but then also as camps have tried to.

That that sort of Florida Drupal camp site and model to their own camps has been supporting a lot of them as well. And so he and I started talking about, you know, what would it look like to basically fork the custom theme that was built for the Florida Drupal camp. And then as I had done with the event platform, kind of my goal was to say for those camps that really don't have any sort of technical expertise in terms of creating a custom theme or even doing any kind of patching of a provided contrib theme, making elements of it configurable so that if you wanna change, like the little palm tree that you see on the Florida Drupal camp, you know, that's something that you can upload through the theme settings, you can update the colors and some of those kinds of things.

So that might be extended in the future. But but really the, the goal initially at least was to, to give camps the ability to sort of give their sight a professional and feel with a bit of local flavor, again, without having to write any custom code.

John: So, so am I cor correct? Did I miss it? It's not in event platform yet.

You, it will be released.

Martin: So it's actually a project of its own, because it is a theme. So, ah, we decided, so, Bernardo and I, and, and a couple of other folks sat down at Triple Con Atlanta, which is really where we started to, to get working on this in earnest. And actually somebody at our table suggested using AI to come up with a name for it.

And the best one by far was Event Horizon. And so that is the name of the, the theme, right? That's intended as a companion for event platform.

Nic: Well, it's, it's, and that's what I was gonna ask, is that a reference to the movie, to black holes? To both.

Martin: It's, I mean, I think it's, it's works as a bit of a combination of things.

You know, obviously it, it being explicitly event related is helpful, but the fact that it is both kind of a astrophysical reference as well as to sort of a, you know, fun cult movie.

John: Mm-hmm.

Martin: You know, there's lots of sort of, you know, layers of, interesting meaning there. The other thing that actually is interesting is since we created the event horizon, actually I think within about the first week, somebody from the community posted an issue on there asking if there could be a way to use it without the event platform because they liked the way the sort of, you know, header and menus worked in the footer and, and so I think there is a possibility down the road that maybe I'll make a separate theme.

Like a base theme that could be just called Horizon, and then Event Horizon could be the event platform specific version that would sit on top of that. But I can't, I can't say again how, how soon or if I'll, you know, have sort of the time and energy to get to that. But if, if anybody listening to this podcast is interested in helping with that work, absolutely would, I could see that being a benefit to the community for sure.

John: As Nick, as Nick knows you know, as the maintainer of the Ned Camp website, he knows how much of a of a black hole sometimes event websites can be. So, I mean, I feel like that's totally, that that's perfect.

Nic: Fits well. I, I, I kind of want to sidebar here for a second actually, Martin, 'cause you, you always say this in the intro every week with you for module week, that you're a maintainer of a number of modules and recipes and.

You have a lot of project like this that you work on. Smart date's another big one. I know storage is another, although I don't think storage takes too much of your time anymore. But how, how do you plan out your contribution time? How do you consider that? Is it, I know I, I imagine some of it is related to Acquia, like just sponsor time, but I don't imagine the sponsoring all the time that you're working on these kinds of things.

How do you how do you kind of plan out your time in contribution level and is, is it just kind of ad hoc or is it. Don't worry Martin, nobody

John: from Aqui leadership listens to this podcast can

Martin: verify. I will say that actually speaking at camps helps to drive the actual contribution to the projects that I'm speaking about.

So, as an example, I submitted and had accepted a session for MIDC Camp, specifically about event platform. It was kind of the first time I was gonna speak about it as sort of its own dedicated session topic. And so leading up to that session, there were a few things that I was hoping I could get fixed in time to be able to talk about them at mid camp.

And so that definitely drove, you know, the, it basically gave me a deadline to work towards. And then I've since talked about it at Asheville and I'm gonna be talking about it in Vienna. So there is sort of, okay, you know, it acts as sort of, you know, a waypoint in terms of you know, a date to work towards.

And then on top of that, I have certain ideas around things that I think are priorities. And then we have, you know, meetings that we'll probably talk about in a bit in terms of, you know, collaborating with the community, understanding what other people's priorities are, and trying to sort of weave that in, figure out how that can align to, to some of those milestones.

One other thing, john, you had asked about some of the 2025 features or at least recent features. One other thing that we actually haven't talked about yet is in the context of that multi-event architecture. I did also come to the realization that there was the potential to, to build in some workflow features for the events themselves.

So as somebody who goes to a lot of different Drupal camps, I've, I've definitely observed that there are kind of patterns in terms of how the events themselves tend to be organized. So, you know, early on there's kind of a save the date announcement that goes out. Then at some point they will open a call for sessions where, you know, people can go in and actually create those session proposals.

At some point that will be closed off, and then they go through a process of evaluating the sessions, eventually publishing a schedule. And then at a certain point, the, the actual camp itself will begin. Then, you know, after the, the end of the last date, it goes into kind of a, you know, like, look at the YouTube playlist or, you know, thanks everyone for their participation.

And so what I realized is that based on some of those key dates, a number of which we were already capturing in the event platform, we had the potential to actually have a workflow that could automate prioritizing the most relevant pieces of information throughout that lifecycle of, you know, a camp or similar event.

So I think I, in the end, I only had to add maybe two or three dates to be able to capture, you know, that full range. So things like the session submission deadline, I don't think was part of the original list, but is now, and was able to use, you know, both the, the built-in Drupal workflows as well as I found a module called content moderation or No Moderation State Condition that allows you to show our hide blocks based on the.

Moderation state of the, the entity that you were, you're viewing. The, the only tricky part there was that the project page said that it worked for entities, but once I got working with it, I realized that it actually had been hard coded to work with nodes, but I was able to work with the succession authors, got a, a patch submitted and eventually accepted and included in a new major release that, that allows the same capabilities to work with taxonomy terms, which is how the event platform manages those you know, the multi-year events.

Nic: I, I think, I think that's a good example of something that can also help organizers that are planning out their event. Right. We, we've been doing Ned Camp now for 11 years, and it wasn't until like two or three years ago, I think Mike came up with this. He built a big spreadsheet that put all, like, it was always kind of ad hoc.

Like each year we'd be like, okay, we have to select, you know, the keynote. We need to do the session. Like we knew all that stuff, but. Three or four years ago, Mike came in and built a spreadsheet and said, okay. In our first, first or second meeting of the year, he was like, okay, we want, we probably wanna have the keynote by this day.

We probably like, we plan all those four or five dates out and, you know, when you plan ahead, if it makes these things get a

John: lot easier.

Nic: Yeah. And, and, and it's the kind of thing that until you've done it, it's hard to think, think through that and put in that head. Mm-hmm. If you, if you have like an intake for an event almost, it's like, here are the five events you need to put build.

It gives people a starting place to figure out and, and maybe there's some help texts like, Hey, you probably want to have your sessions at least six weeks before the event is finished. You wanna have eight weeks with a session select. So it gives them like, Hey, if you're planning an event, unless it's really small, or you're planning on dedicating a hundred hours in the next two weeks, it needs to be, you need four months, six months of planning to, to get this done.

So yeah, I think, I think that's really, really interesting. Yeah, it's interesting that you say that. I know there is also, I can't remember if it's like a wiki that somebody set up that has a lot of kind of event planning wisdom that maybe there's an opportunity over time to sort of weave some of those into the actual event platform and kind of the automated way.

Martin: So you could put your start date at the top and maybe it could like pre-populate some suggested dates further down based on that. Oh, yeah. But you know, definitely, definitely lots of, I mean, I agree that particularly for new camp organizers, which, you know as we speak, I'm kind of in that category myself.

You know, it's definitely a huge benefit to, to be able to draw on some of the experience of, of people with more experience. Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like you're getting more than just a package of modules, but sort of a framework for running an event. That's incredible.

John: That's exactly right.

James: I wanna circle back to something we were chatting about earlier.

So we mentioned that this event platform is like a collection of modules and it also has a theme associated with it. And Nick brought up, you know, it's, it sounds like it's not currently recipes under the hood. Would there, is there a plan for transitioning certain aspects of it to recipes and, and what sort of advantages would there be to that sort of a, a switch?

Martin: Yeah, great question. So, you know, as we talked about earlier, the event platform was developed before there was really this recipe framework. And one of the reasons I was really excited about recipes was that I could see the power of using things like the config actions to be able to, to more flexibly update an existing sites.

So, as an example, the initial version of event platform had a submodule called Event Platform Aero that would place blocks into, you know, useful regions. But the limitation of doing that in a module, or at least without having to write a lot of very custom logic into like an install hook or something, was that it had to be very specific about which theme it would use.

It would have to know what regions existed within that theme and so on. Whereas now in the recipe system, you actually have config actions where you can. Flexibly place blocks, and you can say, if it's this theme put into that region, if it's this other theme, put into that region and maybe as a fallback use something, that everyth theme is probably gonna have like content.

John: Mm-hmm.

Martin: So there is definitely some, some benefit in terms of the flexibility if these could be moved into, into recipes. But the, there's a couple of challenges. So number one is that there are a few there are some elements of kind of functional codes. So like PHP, some of the tools that, that I mentioned in terms of being able to do things like generate time slots or the, the drag and drop interface.

And so would have to figure out either just keep those pieces as modules or potentially. If there's a way to make them useful as more generic modules mm-hmm. That could be configured to sort of work the way they do currently, then, then that might be the approach. The other challenge that I ran into is that earlier this year, I decided, you know, rather than focusing on turning what's already in event platform into a set of recipes, maybe a good next step would, would actually be to go a level up and provide more of like a site recipe that can install event platform and maybe a few other things.

Mm-hmm. To provide kind of a more robust ca set of capabilities. And what I discovered is I, I, I went to do that, was that if I, if I made a recipe that did nothing else except. Install event platform, it would actually time out. It would run for several minutes and time out. Whereas using DR to install mm-hmm.

Event platform usually takes, you know, 15 to 20 seconds. So there was some kind of a, a very significant difference under the hood. I know. And once I started, I'm sure you know why, it's because the module installer in the recipe runner does a lot more sophisticated logic around, you know, white configuration needs to be installed and a few other things.

And also because it does them one by one before resetting the container. Whereas the, particularly in newer versions of Drupal, it will install a variety or a number of different modules. And maybe Nick, you know, the, the specific number before it actually resets the container. So there's, there's a couple of different.

Reasons why it runs much slower and, and effectively, you know, event platform as it exists today really can't be installed via a recipe. But again, you know, if parts of it could be moved into recipes, it's possible that, you know, that would all work together a little more seamlessly. But that's, you know, something to explore a little bit more down the road.

Nic: Hmm. Yeah. And, and that's exactly why it, it is the, the module installer and Drupal tries to batch them up to 20 at a time depending on dependencies and that kind of thing. And, and it's because there was a hu there's a memory leak when you rebuild container each time and the recipe installer just hasn't, there, there's an issue for it.

We can find that issue, but the recipe installer just hasn't done that. So it goes through them. I

John: feel like, I feel like we need to comment on that issue to be like, test this with event platform.

Nic: Yeah. Good

John: luck. Here's

Nic: how to replicate it. Cms, you, you don't, I mean, DRAL CMS is even bigger than Oh, really?

Event platform and it has the

James: same issue. Yeah. They

Nic: have some custom logic to mm-hmm. Install it.

Martin: Yeah. And event platform as well. You are meant to install by downloading an archive and then running installer locally. And maybe that's part of the reason that you can't just sort of install it as a res or apply it as a recipe the way you might, given it's sort of a overall architecture.

Nic: Yeah. The, the thing is that, that, that change in mod, mod module installer sped up install orders of magnitude is something like, hmm, 11.1 to 11.2. You can install pretty much every module in something like 10 seconds. And before it took two minutes. And, and the problem is with, with the memory leak, it would take three minutes and two gigabytes of memory or something like that was, it was pretty obscene.

So, so, but, but there's a lot, as Martin alluded to, there's a lot of logic around when different types of configs installed, like when the entity config entities getting solved, when does simple config getting solved? When does dependent entities getting solved? And there are ways to opt out of this for a particular module, but one of the problems is, is a lot of people depend on optional config in their config, which you're not supposed to do without certain constraints.

But because modules used to install sequentially, the optional config was always there through the installer. And so it, it has broken some modules that depended on config that's not supposed to really be dependent upon. So

John: core, core installer issues aside, right? Like, I mean there are, well, I guess, I guess you have to kind of build, you have to kind of create event platform as a, as a, as a whole platform as opposed to kind of taking out certain features and functionality and turning them into recipes individually, right?

Like, 'cause it needs that base, that base platform to make sure that all the other pieces work correctly, right.

Martin: Yes and no. So I would say from the time it was originally architected, it was actually split up into kind of a collection of smaller modules. So that, as an example, if you were organizing an event that needed, let's say, sponsors and job listings, but not sessions mm-hmm.

Then you could just install the, the submodules that corresponded to the functionality that you wanted to use, as opposed to just doing sort of the, the base install that would give you everything. Mm-hmm. So it has been designed to be kind of modular that way. And so mapping parts of it to recipes I think would probably be fairly straightforward.

That being said, there are, you know, as I say, some functional pieces, and even more recently, as part of the work I've been doing this year, wrote some install hooks that I would have to see do those, how cleanly would those map into existing config actions and some of those kinds of things. Yeah. 'cause, 'cause in my head right now I'm like, okay, so we like, you know, kind of early adopted event platform and it's been great and, you know, it, it definitely delivers on the, on the promise even in even that earlier version.

John: But now I'm like listening to some of these features and I'm like, oh, that could be cool and that could be cool. And I'm like, but I don't necessarily wanna do a clean install and then, you know, have to go to Nick and go, Hey, can you migrate all the content over to this new site? Yeah,

Nic: that, that, that's, that's one of the pieces that I'm saddest about is this is probably, we're probably on our fourth website.

We're all Drupal developers, but each time we buil I have copies of all the old databases, but each time we rebuild, we just kind of ditch all the old content.

John: Yeah. And, and the, the goal with this site was that it was gonna be the last, you know, the last iteration where we would just kind of upgrade, upgrade what was there to to, you know, to, to newer versions.

So, I mean, that's where that, that's why, you know, I'm, I'm pushing the recipe question so hard 'cause I'm like, oh, it'd be great to just pull off, pull a recipe off for you know, I don't know, the let me go back up here. The like multi-event architecture and just be like, boop. Oh, okay. It's in there now.

Lemme retag a couple of things and like, we're off and running. Right?

Nic: Yeah.

Martin: Yeah. I mean, I will say that if you, if you were to update to the last major version or the last whatever, what'd you call it? Patch release of the 1.0 branch. That should give you the most recent version of things like the time slot generator and the scheduler.

Yeah. And then things like the, for the multi-event architecture it sounds like if you've already created a taxonomy for that, all you would need to do is really sort of adapt the workflow to work with your taxonomy, which like, you know, if you're feeling brave, you could probably manually edit the YAML file for the workflow and mm-hmm.

And get that pulled in. You might at that point, it might even work with the, the ECA models. They're specific to that around sending notifications and some of those other things. So you might actually find that if you're willing to sort of do a little spilling in your YAML files that it right.

That provided YAML files that, that it's not a crazy amount of work. And would love to get feedback if you, you know, decide to, to take that on. But, unfortunately today there isn't sort of a direct migration path.

Nic: I, I may, may or may not take that on, I don't know. But I, I have noticed, and, and you've mentioned this though, that there are, you know, this is starting to look like a, a Jacob Rockwood project.

There's, there's a bunch of little submodules to, to break it out, which I think is great. Like you said, it makes you, it makes it so you can pick and choose That is a term of

John: endearment.

Nic: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, I think it's great. I think it, it's, you can pick and choose the pieces that you want and it gives you more flexibility for updating them, right, because you don't have to worry about updating this monolithic thing.

That being said, as you've been working on this over the last few years now, what, what was the kind of thorniest issue or feature that you had to add or that you worked on in the last, I dunno, six months or a year in these updates?

Martin: So I would say once I started going down this rabbit hole of the multi-event architecture, one of the things that I realized is that.

By nature of going into, let's say views and giving them contextual filters immediately, that means that those page views can't have menu links associated with them anymore. Effectively, as soon as you have a contextual filter on a a views page, it won't even give you the option of providing navigation or a menu link as part of that views configuration.

And so I started trying to think about what would be a good alternative in terms of providing navigation. And I talked to some people who had gone down that road before. I think there are some sites that in a similar situation have actually created separate menus for each event, which felt very clunky to me.

And what I started thinking about was, what if you could provide menu links that had a similar set of logic around trying to tease out some kind of a. You know, for lack of a better word, contextual filter, a contextual piece of information from the current pages, URL and then construct links that would try and sort of be relative to that.

So basically provide, or what's the word I'm looking for? Maintain that within the URL structure so that if you were looking at the 2025, let's say, event homepage, and you saw a link to the schedule, that it would be a link to that year's schedule. Whereas if you were in the 2024 event section of the, of the website and you saw the same link, it would point to the 2024 session information.

Now, I, I did a little digging. I couldn't find anything that was. That seemed like it would, it would provide that set of capabilities. And so started working on, I think originally I called them dynamic Menu links or something like that. And Mike and Ello convinced me that, you know, I'm so bought into the whole like smart everything that it should be called Smart Menu links.

And so, so eventually changed it to smart menu links. I did run into some weird things around caching that I, I just could not get could not quite get fixed. And it was actually while I was at Drupal dev days, I connected with Wim Lear asked who he thought would be the best person to. To talk to.

He pointed me to somebody and I, I literally caught him as he was leaving for the airport, and he was able to point me in the right, the right direction. And anyway, that, it was probably the, one of the more complex things that I worked on in a few years. And so I'm definitely glad to sort of, not be actively working on that at the moment.

But I did also write a blog post. We'll have a link to that in the show notes if people wanna get a more sort of detailed history of, of how that all came to pass.

John: Just outta curiosity, how, how many, okay, let me restate, let me say this in a different way. From your work on event platform, right? How many other Drupal issues like Drupal core issues or other Drupal module issues, have you, you know, created been involved in fixing so on and so forth?

Martin: Yeah, it's a great question. It's actually led to being involved in a lot of very diverse things. So as an example you know, we talked before about having the config actions to be able to, to place blocks in a flexible way. I actually worked on that pretty heavily last year to try and get that into Drupal 11.

And that was really, you know, built specifically to, to have that avail capability available to event platform. And same way I've worked on issues for smart date moderation, state condition, content moderation, link, ECA, and even web form specifically to, you know, make things way work in the way that that event platform really needed.

And I can't think of too many other core issues beyond the, the event one, or, sorry, the, the, the recipes config actions for placing blocks. But you know, there's lots more work to do on the event platform. So I guess we'll see.

John: There you go. I just, it's interesting to me how and I think we all have these in our projects, right?

Where we're building something and we're like, oh, here's a, here's another core issue, and, or, oh, here's an issue in the module, like, and I gotta fix that before I can fix this. And like, it's very just, I mean, it's open source software, it's kind of the way it works. How many camps are using. Or how many camp websites I should say, are using event platform?

Do you have like a, a, a leaderboard in your office that every time somebody installs it's like bling one more

James: little notch in your belt every time? Yeah,

Martin: I, I mean, I wish I had that kind of visibility to be honest. We don't really know for sure. There is an issue on the event platform project for people who are using it to sort of, add a comment there.

But Drupal Dev days in Vienna, what was that? Two years ago, I think was, was really the first one that I know of that, that used it kind of for their production website. Ned Camp, as we've talked about, was also an early adopter Drupal Dev days in Burgess last year. Also used event platform as well as New Jersey, Drupal Camp Pacific Northwest Drupal Camp.

And even on LinkedIn somebody posted a really nice writeup of using the event platform for Drupal Camp Berlin as well. There have been more recently some, some different camps that are interested in being on the event platform and including actually kind of un forking the Florida Drupal Camp website, so that moving forward it will actually be on a event platform.

So, you know, lots of, you know of a lot of good contributors there, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. That being said, I, I have been recently involved in the organizing of a new Drupal camp in southwestern Ontario, Canada. And so Nice. Couple of weeks ago that actually became the first site to go live officially on the new version of event platform, the 2.0 version.

Are you guys gonna call it

John: Drupal a

Martin: a?

John: It's not bad. I feel like that would be a quality camp name.

James: That's good. So it sounds like, you know, you've got all these camps using it, but there may be other camps using it too. You need some some sort of telemetry. I was thinking, you know, you could, you could come up with something that just similar to like drupal.org module statistics or whatever. And you could call it a EP phone home, you know?

Martin: I like that a lot. Yeah. Although it's funny, I think particularly in the open source world, people will sometimes view any kind of telemetry as like some form of evil, you know, like Yeah, yeah. Big brother somehow. But I'm strongly

Nic: on that. Yeah. In that bandwagon, because Yeah, you never know what gets, once you approve it, generally, it's not even generally like when it's initially added.

Mm-hmm. But once it's added, you never know what gets sent with it or if they add to it or, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Also Optin versus opt out. But yeah, it would be, it would be nice for this type of issue, for this type of project to know, to know who's are using it, because it, it's kind of an ecosystem thing.

Mm-hmm. So seeing their use cases are, being able to talk to them would be, would be useful.

James: Yeah. 'cause you know, even just our folks that are not in the Drupal community using it community, are there, are you aware of camps that are outside of Drupal, you know, that are using the, the platform at this point?

Martin: I definitely know of at least one example of a, an event similar to a Drupal camp in the sense that it had sort of, community proposed sessions and evaluated those. I think it might have even been one that did sort of multiple per year as opposed to an annual event.

John: Mm.

Martin: But it was great to see that it was useful for something that, that really had no connection to Drupal sort of directly beyond the developer who was.

Obviously creating the site for them. I have also spoken to a couple of folks most recently I think at MIDC Camp. Somebody who had been in my presentation there who afterwards mentioned that he works for an agency that does a lot of event websites and, and thought event platform is definitely something they're gonna consider moving to as opposed to some of the proprietary platforms they're using today.

Nic: Oh, nice. Yeah. Speaking of that, I think, I think event platform kind of dovetails nicely with triple CMS and not, not that I think event platform should be part of triple CMS, but it's, it's a product unto itself. And it it's a solution to an issue. Like you said, people that use proprietary event platforms can use the Drupal event platform and they don't, they don't particularly care that it's Drupal under the hood, maybe, at least in the beginning.

I'm sure if they start using it, they'll begin to, to care more about Drupal. But have you thought about. Possibly trying to get more exposure for event platform kind of as a solution? Or are you kind of content right now with it being mostly a Drupal event specific thing?

Martin: Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, you know, I had the, the benefit early on of working with Kaleem Clarkson, who's, you know, a terrific individual and you know, very pla passionate about event organizing in general.

And I think it was really his vision to sort of not make it Drupal specific. And I, you know, as I say, we've already sort of seen that bear fruit, but you know. At the end of the day, I, I sort of am cognizant of the fact that, you know, as you mentioned before, there are limits on sort of my time and energy.

I, I love the idea of promoting it more broadly, but you know, maybe if somebody listening to this podcast wants to come on board and be kind of the hype person who can go out and sort of spread the gospel that way you know, would love to, to collaborate and, and work with somebody whose talents kind of lie in that area.

And then you could call that person

John: EP hype homey,

Martin: or the event platform evangelist, maybe.

John: Oh, well, yeah. All right. Maybe that, that one's less less interstellar, but hey, whatever. Yeah. Nick just used a buzzword about Drupal CMS and I'm wondering, you know, are there any thoughts of, of moving this to Drupal CMS or does kind of the, the recipe issue kind of prevent that from being something where, Hey, I just installed Drupal CMS and like, oh look, I need an event platform.

Let me click the button and have it be the, the event platform.

Martin: So I did consider if there was maybe a path to having event platform I don't know, distributed, I'm not sure exactly what the right word is, as sort of a add-on, on top of, of Drupal CMS. Mm-hmm. I would say, my personal opinion is that that Drupal CMS is very opinionated to provide a specific kind of site that I don't think necessarily aligns with sort of the base functionality that a Drupal camp needs.

And so. I sort of have decided that I don't, I don't think sort of using Drupal CMS out of the box and then trying to layer event platform on top of that is probably the best approach. But I, I mentioned earlier that I had started earlier this year on a site recipe, so that's actually called event platform starter, and it was actually implemented as a recipe.

But then when I, I ran into that, that issue that we talked about in terms of, you know, the, the limitations of the recipe runner from a, a speed standpoint. Effectively today, it's, it's very useful as almost like a composer template. So you can sort of, you know, spin up a new Drupal site, composer, acquire event platform starter.

It'll bring in event platform as well as some specific Drupal CMS recipes that are part of, you know, the, the larger ecosystem there. So things like SEO, it'll bring in the Drupal CMS image, so you get some of the image presets or image styles and even a responsive image styles. Then it'll, it'll provide in the read me a series of steps that you can use to sort of quickly build out your event platform site and have a very robust set of features that way.

So, tried to go with sort of a blended approach there so that, that people can get some of the, the capabilities that the community has really worked hard to put into Drupal CMS but but still have a site that I think is more built specifically to the needs of a, of a Drupal camp or similar event. I, I'd

Nic: be, I'd be interested, interested to see on that reverse, I don't know, I guess flow as well.

'cause one of the, one of the key selling points of Drupal CMS is that they're all recipes. You take or leave the pieces that you want. But I think, I don't think people have been doing that a lot in practice. I think the people using the Drupal CMS recipes that are using Drupal CMS. So I, I'd be curious to see how well they do truly split out.

Like, can you include. The blog recipe, for example, an event platform and not run into issues. Or, or not. Or the analytics one, like we talked about last week.

Martin: Yeah, absolutely. So I will say that in my experience, there were a couple that I was hoping I could pull in. So as a, as an example, the privacy recipe in Drupal cms.

Oh yeah, good point. But it does have a dependency on the base recipe that itself will bring in a whole bunch of dependencies, many of which I didn't necessarily think were appropriate for event platforms. So, there's, I would hope maybe on an ongoing basis we can continue to sort of refine the interdependencies on those so that they can be used on a little bit more of a standalone basis.

But you know, obviously there's, there's a whole team managing all those, and that's kind of for them to, to map out

Nic: that, that's the thing that kind of makes me nervous about site. We don't have to go down this sidebar too far, but one of the things that makes me a little nervous about site templates, I think I'm really excited for it.

I think they might be a good fit for event platform as well, but everything I'm seeing says that it's gonna be built on top of triple CMS and it's like, but, but, but Triple CMS has like. 80 module or 90 module dependencies or something. Last time I counted, I, I don't wanna start a project then have to run composer, remove on 45 modules that I'm not using.

But may, maybe that will get pulled apart as we get further into into site templates.

James: I think what, when people just say, you know, Drupal CMS, that means a variety of things to different people and they may just be thinking about one aspect of it. So, you know, like for example, maybe what folks might be wondering is like, could I download this with project browser on an existing site and get it going?

You know, that sort of a thing. Even though, you know, that's like one very niche component of like what makes up Drupal cms that could be, you know, is that, is that a, a thing that's possible

Martin. Yeah, it's an interesting question. I mean, project browser itself is, is sort of, you know, I feel like very much continuing to evolve. Mm-hmm. You know, we, we talked earlier about the potential to move event platform to recipes, and as far as I know, the, the possibility of using project browser to find and apply recipes

mm-hmm.

Martin: Works for Drupal CMS specifically, but partly because it has some elements, they're kind of hard coded in there. Whereas more generally, that whole piece is still in development. Again, last I heard, which, so it's entirely possible that smart people have, you know, long since figured that out. But there's sort of a lot of sort of, you know, inter.

Woven issues here in terms of, I agree with you. Like the idea of saying I could be somebody new to Drupal. Maybe start with either Drupal CMS or a more vanilla version of Drupal. Use that as a visual interface to find the event platform and then get that added to my site. Is, is the dream state. Yeah. But we probably have some more nuanced ways that, that, that experience has to happen before we can get to that sort of ideal state.

James: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it kind of goes to my, my next question I was thinking about is like, you know, what is you, you've probably got a long feature backlog already going for, for event platform. So like, you know, what are some of the things that are on your, your punch list for features, new features for event platform?

Martin: Yeah, great question. So there's, there's obviously a long list of small things that I would like to get cleaned up, particularly for something like a vent horizon that still technically doesn't have a stable release yet. So, you know, lots of, of cleanup there. But one of the big things I'd like to tackle at some point is having some kind of an ability to do sort of Drupal native registration for the events.

So I think today it's kind of built with the assumption that the camp is probably gonna to use like an Eventbrite or something like that for the actual sort of, you know, purchasing of tickets. But certainly that could be done using something like entity registration and Drupal Commerce. Or there might be, you know, other kinds of integrations.

Even something like CCRM, I know some camps will use as kind of more of the commerce backend. So we'd love to have some more conversations around that. Another piece that actually is in Drupal CMS is the easy email express mail recipe. And would love to get that sort of woven into event platform so that when it sends out those emails to session authors to say, your session has been accepted, and click here to confirm it, or the different kinds of things that, you know, those are professionally formatted and look as intuitive as possible.

And my hope is that that shouldn't be a crazy long list or a, a crazy degree of effort. But you know, obviously sometimes you know, the devil's in the details as they like to say. There is also a module that I discovered as part of some conversations at the Community Summit Triple Con last year, which is called Generate Social Media Images.

And so the idea is for things like sessions, I think a lot of camps today will have somebody who just sits down with Photoshop and. Grinds through and sort of generates those by hand. But there is the potential to be able to have those automatically created using a template. So there is a module, the, the limitation right now as I understand it is that it doesn't actually sort of save, excuse me, the generated version of the, the module.

And so I think from a performance standpoint could actually end up putting a lot of load on the website infrastructure. So I'm hoping that that's not a crazy amount of lift. I was talking to another developer recently who said he kind of already has, you know, code that fits that pattern. So, you know, if I can, that's something I would love to get implemented this year.

And then of course, as we were talking about with Drupal, GovCon, you know, e everybody's talking about ai. I haven't completely got my head around how that could add value to a camp website, but I feel like that should be something we're starting to think about. Yeah. So whether it's doing an initial pass for, you know, spammy content or inappropriate links or some of those kinds of things you know, there, or it could be, you know, as simple as saying, you know, maybe the session author only has to give you the long form description and then you can use AI to generate like the social media version or some of those other, you know, formats that camps often need.

John: Yeah, that seems like a pretty good use. I was, I was thinking in my head like, ugh, no more ai. But like, getting those, the, you know, summarizing the, the description of the, of the talk for social media seems like a, a really, a really good use. I don't wanna add more to your already overflowing plate Martin, but all of those features sound great.

I'm just wondering like, is there an upgrade path feature in the future somewhere where like, you know, maybe if I take the leap and I get onto the latest and greatest version of event platform, I, I can like get the latest and greatest stuff as you kind of add more.

Martin: So there is definitely that potential and as I say, there is an issue on event platform about having an upgrade path. I feel like it's, there's probably just specific fields that you would need to make sure. Exist so that, you know, the relationships or you know, certain features would work as expected.

Hmm. But yeah, if, if there are camps like Ned Camp that are in that position and are really interested in trying to upgrade to the, the latest version, then would definitely love to have the conversation around, you know, what would it require to provide that upgrade path.

John: Or maybe it's even just like a sub-module like, upgrade status where you like turn it on and it tells you like, okay, you can, you can upgrade to this version, like the latest version, but you have to like, duplicate this field or rename or do like, basically walks you through kind of what you have to do.

I dunno, I'm just, I'm just spit balling here. But yeah, if there's an issue on D oh, we can, we can we can drop comments and ideas in there all day long.

Martin: We can include a link to that in the show notes too.

Nic: So. If somebody's listening to this episode and they run an event or thinking about running an event or maybe knows somebody that runs events and they wanted to try out event platform or

John: has been

Nic: to an event mm-hmm.

Or has been to an event, what's the best way for them to test our event platform and, and is there any particular feature they should maybe, maybe enable to see the Power of Event platform?

Martin: So we talked a little bit before about the event Platform starter, and I think that's a great way to get started.

Particularly if you already have, let's say D Dev installed locally. There's no reason you couldn't have a working copy of event platform, including the Event Horizon theme up and running locally in under 15 minutes. So. You know, it, it's definitely not a big lift from that standpoint. That being said, for anybody who is maybe a bit less on the technical side and just wants to sort of kick the tires, I did work with the team over at Drupal Forge to set up a template.

And so you can go over to drupal org or Drupal Forge scroll. It's currently at the bottom of the page to the event platform. And then within a few seconds you can have a copy of it event platform that you can start to try out. You can also enable like a, a dev interface, so you could also try, you know, sub theming or if you wanna do, you know, more ambitious things with it, you can play around that way.

And then once you have a version of event platform that you think is ready to host, you can download that and then move it on to, you know, digital ocean or whatever your preferred hosting solution is and and be able to, to get that hosted and, and public point your domain at it. And you're essentially good to go.

John: All right. So when we have folks on that are, are, are doing the great work of Drupal in their various ways we always ask how can people get involved? So if, if somebody listens to this and they're like, I love the idea of event platform, I wanna, I wanna help Martin pick up one of these rocks and push it up a mountain.

How can they go about doing that? So we are doing monthly meetings on the third Wednesday of the month and there are ongoing discussions in the event platform channel of Drupal Slack, which I think the, the next meeting is actually coming up tomorrow, so it'll be in the past. By the time folks can listen to this we're actually gonna try doing asynchronously, which see a few other initiatives doing.

Martin: And then obviously in addition to that, folks can open up issues in the projects for either event, platform, event Horizon, or any of the other modules in the ecosystem as well.

John: Great.

Nic: Alright, Martin, thank you for joining us. It's always a pleasure when you can stay with us for the whole show.

Martin: Yeah. Thanks for having me.

John: You make it sound like we, we kick him out like, like, like, Hey Martin. Okay. You've done your job here. Just there's the door. Get the heck out. Not it's not the case. He can stay anytime.

Do you have questions or feedback? Reach out to talking Drupal on the socials with the handle talking Drupal or by email with [email protected]. You can connect with our hosts and other listeners on Drupal Slack in the Talking Dral channel and you can promote your Drupal community event on talking Drupal.

Nic: Learn [email protected] slash td promo. And if you're using event platform, let us know. Get the Talking Drupal newsletter to learn more about our guest hosts, show news, upcoming shows, and much more. Sign up for the [email protected] slash newsletter. And thank you patrons for supporting talking Drupal.

Your support is greatly appreciated. You can learn more about becoming a [email protected] and choosing Become a Patron. Alright, Martin, if our listeners wanna get in touch with you or wanted to contribute to event platform, what's the best way for them to get in touch?

Martin: They can always find me on the Drupal and social platforms as Man Clue, or they can read about some of the recent updates for event platform on my [email protected].

Awesome. James, how about you?

James: Yeah you find me on LinkedIn, just search James Stansbury. I'm also on Drupal Slack. There's a tugboat support channel in there and Drupal Slack, so feel free to hop in there and say, Hey and check out Tugboat Tugboat QA dot. Perfect. John, how about you?

John: You can find out about me [email protected] on the social media platform of your choice and drupal.org at John Zi, and you can find out about eam [email protected].

Nic: And you can find me pretty much everywhere at NS van N-I-C-X-B-A-N.

John: And if you've enjoyed listening, we've enjoyed talking. Dear listener, have a good one.

Nic: Thanks. See you guys next week.